HELP: RN Pro Pioneer - no SSH options for RSYNC?

[lemon8]

I'm in the process of setting up some backup jobs, using rsync for both LAN and WAN, for which I'd like to enable an SSH connection. Following the guide from this site, I appear to be missing any options for SSH from Frontview.

Running Raidiator 4.2.8

The share in question has only CIFS and rsync enabled for it. If I go to its RSYNC properties there is no "Rsync over SSH" section at the very bottom. The rectangle at the bottom of this screen shot is completely missing from my UI: http://www.readynas.com/media/images/rs ... ssh_2d.jpg)

There is also no SSH key generation option for the rsync backup source nor destinations. The SSH rectangle in this screenshot is missing from my UI: http://www.readynas.com/media/images/rs ... ssh_1b.jpg

Anyone else experience this by default? Is there something I need to turn on elsewhere to make these options show up?

[lemon8]

Is there supposed to be an add-on listed for SSH? I notice that one can download "EnableRootSSH" but I thought that as a special-case, especially when it comes with a disclaimer that Netgear may deny support (kind of an odd thing to do for an add-on that's listed on an official Netgear page).

I've used the ToggleSSH twice now. The first time it disabled and the last time in enabled SSH. There are still no SSH options anywhere in Frontview.

[Richy_Boy]

Does Pioneer support rsync-over-ssh?

edit: according to this link, it's a 'Business' feature only.

http://www.netgear.com/upload/product/r ... arison.pdf

Rich

[lemon8]

There's nothing "Pro" at all about not supporting rsync over SSH. I'll be mighty pissed off if the comparison chart is accurate in that regard. The Warranty item is incorrect, so I hope there are other out-dated bits of info there too.

The most readily available comparison chart is the following linked from the main Products pull-down menu on the front page of the ReadyNAS site:

http://www.readynas.com/?cat=49

It's the same comparison chart that's linked to from the ReadyNAS Pro product page here: http://www.readynas.com/?cat=24

And it clearly mentions what's missing from the Pioneer. SSH isn't on the list. So far I'm starting to get pretty soured by the lack of documentation and disclosure from Netgear about this product line. This is starting to amount to bait and switch since the products use the exact same hardware and same name. Most documentation on the site never distinguishes between Pioneer and Business at all, making things even more confusing.

Even the product data sheets for both are identical in regards to Rsync in the specs section. The Business edition claims "Root SSH" in the "Open Platform" category but nothing about one supporting Rsync over SSH and not the other.

What I did just find is at the bottom of the USB section it says this:

The ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer Edition is designed for home installations. It does not include hard disks or support for Windows Active Directory integration, snapshot, iSCSI, NIC teaming/failover, SNMP or secure rsync. For these and other business-class features, look at the ReadyNAS Pro Business Edition.

If it can't do rsync over SSH I'm not even sure how to set it up to push/pull the backups on my LAN, let alone over the internet. So far with only a password it's failed the connection test to my MacBook Pro.

On top of everything I'll likely end up paying an extra $200 that I wasn't expecting for this product because we recycled the box before cutting off the UPC and it's likely I can't claim a rebate. Still waiting for over a week for a reply from Netgear about that too.

So how is this going to be resolved? I'm sure the store isn't going to take this unit back without a box and I'm not about to lose $1200 due to poor technical writing by Netgear.

[dbott67]

I'm pretty certain that the Pioneer does not support rsync-over-ssh.

The Warranty item is incorrect, so I hope there are other out-dated bits of info there too.

What do you mean "incorrect"? The Pioneer warranty is 3 years vs. 5 years for the Business Edition as noted on the spec pages for both products, as well as the comparison chart you linked to.

I'm starting to get pretty soured by the lack of documentation and disclosure from Netgear about this product line. This is starting to amount to bait and switch...

The official product documentation page is quite clear at the bottom as to the differences:

http://www.netgear.com/Products/Storage ... P600E.aspx

The ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer Edition is designed for home installations. It does not include hard disks or support for Windows Active Directory integration, snapshot, iSCSI, NIC teaming/failover, SNMP or secure rsync. For these and other business-class features, look at the ReadyNAS Pro Business Edition.

* Requires 2 or more disks to be installed.
** Once disks are installed and initialized.

Comparison Chart
For difference between Pioneer and Business Edition click here.
Ordering Part Number (United States) : RNDP600E-100NAS

Granted, there are many that would like to see a diskless Pro Business Edition (or the option to buy add-ons for the Pioneer to increase functionality, such as rsync-over-ssh, iSCSI, teaming, etc.), but in fairness, the Pioneer has always been marketed with the reduced feature set.

Having said that, there is always the possibility of having a community-developed add-on created, such as the teaming add-on:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=34262&p=200571#p189304

[mdgm]

Having said that, there is always the possibility of having a community-developed add-on created, such as the teaming add-on:

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic ... 71#p189304

Especially considering super-poussin wrote one for Sparc (different Platform so add-on won't work with the Pioneer). If you're interested in one for the Pioneer perhaps you should let super-poussin know.

[Richy_Boy]

I think the devil is in the details. The Pioneer supports SSH and supports rsync, but it appears it doesn't support rsync-over-SSH as this was probably deemed a business tool to explain the price hike between the two. I think 'PRO' refers to performance, whist Business/Pioneer refers to the functionality.

Look under BACKUP in the comparison chart you linked to.

Rich

[mdgm]

I think 'PRO' refers to performance, whist Business/Pioneer refers to the functionality.

Both versions have the same firmware, it's just the Pro has "business features" that the Pioneer lacks, as well as a longer warranty than the Pioneer.

You can still setup rsync over a VPN if you want or unsecurely (not recommended). See this old guide: http://www.readynas.com/download/documentation/support/rsync_howto_nastonas.pdf. Some things may be setup slightly differently but for the most part it's still accurate.

Don't get me wrong, I wish there was a Business diskless and no Pioneer. If there was a Business Diskless, I may have purchased an x86 ReadyNas by now.

[lemon8]

Crap. The spec page I linked hadn't loaded completely into my browser for some reason and I thought I'd scrolled to the bottom before posting the link, but I hadn't. Yes, I can see the "secure rsync"

When i said the original comparison had errors, I wasn't talking about the one I linked to, but the one linked to by the previous poster. It listed the warranty as 3 years for both products, where we know the "Business" has a 5 year.

I would argue that from a marketing perspective, a "diskless" product is more a business/industry product than a home product. Most consumers wouldn't know how to go out and buy drives to stick into and configure a NAS. However, that's the perfect solution for an IT professional.

They really should not have named the Pioneer the same name as the business version. A better name would have omitted the "Pro" from the name, because in all markets, "Pro" means professional. Whether someone uses it in the home or not, that's not the connotation of the name.

I'm using it in my home office. The price is already somewhat ludicrous for the Pioneer, let alone the price of the Business version pre-populated with super marked-up drives.

I will definitely request that upgrade be made and I hope someone is kind enough to oblige. Thus far I have not been successful at all in getting the rsync backup feature to test with anything but a root path to my Mac. A guide on the subject would really be useful. I'm pretty sure I can easily rsync from the Mac to the RN, but I'd really like to have the schedule handled on the RN side in a pull fashion, if for no other reason than to have all my NAS-related backup scheduling in a single interface.

Thanks guys for the replies, much appreciated.

As an aside, I do remember the Infrant web site had a lot of great information and now looking at the Infrant rsync document I'm painfully reminded again about Netgear POS web sites and documentation. Really, what happened since the acquisition? Why are the products now so under-documented? I was really unimpressed with the complete lack of useful documentation that came in the ReadyNAS Pro package. It was totally not appropriate for a diskless unit, telling readers instead to go online to read the user guide. And that guide is again another story.. Ugh. Not very good at all, with having to reference "factory reset" procedures to install disks in a unit that didn't come with them in the first place.

[mdgm]

If it can't do rsync over SSH I'm not even sure how to set it up to push/pull the backups on my LAN, let alone over the internet. So far with only a password it's failed the connection test to my MacBook Pro.

You should be able to backup, just unsecurely, not so big a problem if going over LAN. I haven't done it with a Mac myself, but it should be possible and not too difficult.

I'm not about to lose $1200

I can think of ways to make the Pioneer a very useful device even without the "Business" Features. It could easily be used for example as an on-site backup for another ReadyNas. After all RAID is not a backup.

The Pioneer still will do most of what a Pro Business can do anyway.

[lemon8]

I've probably used the term backup in this thread with regards to the ReadyNAS, but that's mainly to describe the Frontview interface. The "backup" I'm making is really just to pull data off my MacBook Pro and toss it on the RN where it will be primary live storage.

Though the RN may have data that is a duplicate of some data stored elsewhere, it is part of my live disk access and I fully treat it that way. Valuable material is all backed up on non-live disks (in a safe) and eventually, once I get the outbound rsync stuff working as well, it will be backed up off-site as well. That will give me a lot more peace of mind and no regrets if I ever have to abandon the house/office in an emergency that could destroy the data.

I've been able to get the RN to connect to the rsync daemon I'm running on my Mac, but anything other than "/" as a path specified in Frontview gives an "invalid path" error.

I know the local path I want to add is "/Volumes/Play/Pictures/Photo Archive/" but it's definitely not working entered just like that. It's not the space causing the issue because it doesn't work to the parent folder either.

[BigBearf]

@lemon8

I have a RNPP and share some of your feelings. I have suggested as have others that Netgear allow an upgrade path to all features or simply have a single code base. I too did not realize initially some of the things that the RNPP did not have. Be that as it may I really like the RNPP.
I use a Mac environment and backup locally to the RNPP and also to a Time Capsule. I use Memeo to back up automatically to the RNPP, Time capsule and MobileMe with good results. I am an "advanced" home user but also like to learn new things and I can say that I have learned a lot.
I would post your requests and I am sure that most of your concerns will be addressed. Super is great with his add ons and if you need something ask and most of the time the forum members respond quickly and accurately.
Hope this helps.
bigbearf

[lemon8]

Well, Ewok confirmed pretty much that the Pioneer, because it lacks rsync over ssh, cannot be used for Remote rsync for my web host (probably many web hosts for that matter).

I've written to super-poussin to inquire if he's interested in enabling rsync over ssh for the Pioneer. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

This has been one hell of a week working around missing features and the many permissions bugs in Raidiator 4.2.8. I think I finally have things set up so that I can at least copy to and from the RN as well as make any file manipulations I need to on the RN from Mac OS or Windows. It needed a lot of configuring work-arounds on the RN, including make some edits to the backup process to stop the rsync from turning off write permissions for everyone, including the files owner.

[lemon8]

With a few small mods I now have rsync working over SSH on the Pioneer, with the web UI in Frontview. It's really a shame this was disabled in the Pioneer by default. I have no idea how to create an add-on, so I had to make a couple of small edits myself via the shell. Hopefully someone will still make an add-on because my changes will be wiped when an update is performed.

[mdgm]

With a few small mods I now have rsync working over SSH on the Pioneer, with the web UI in Frontview. It's really a shame this was disabled in the Pioneer by default. I have no idea how to create an add-on, so I had to make a couple of small edits myself via the shell. Hopefully someone will still make an add-on because my changes will be wiped when an update is performed.

If you could post the changes you made, that may help someone if they intend to create an add-on. Alternatively start reading here: http://www.readynas.com/?p=346 and you could write one yourself.