hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

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hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:00 am

I have a NV+ that has 4x750GB drives configured as XRaid and running v4.1.5. FYI, I never expanded their capability to the additional 40gb. In any case, I am about to replace the 4 drives with 4x1.5TB Seagate drives. I just read the manual and couldn't find reference to upgrades, only replacing failed drives. I want to assume the process is the same but would rather ask the questions first. So here are my questions;

1 - can I only replace one drive at a time?
2 - when i replace them, does it matter from which position I start?
3 - as the 4 drives are 81% full, approximately how long will the process take per drive?
4 - are there any gotchas or tips to share?

I'm on my way to pick up the drives that just arrived at my UPS Store address. I expect all the answers when I return ;) Ok, just kidding ... but of course you can imagine I'm excited to tackle this as soon as I'm comfortable with what I need to know.

Thanks to all in advance for the assistance!


David
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby nvladik » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:09 am

1. Yes, only one drive at a time.
2. I would start with the first drive, but there's should be no difference.
3. It could take up to a day per drive for re-sync, so the whole process could take 2-4 days.
4. Don't forget that you won't get the extra space right away, after you replace the first two drives, you will need to reboot a few times.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:54 pm

Thanks for the quick reply! :) I've received the drives, double checked serial numbers on Seagate's website to ensure the firmware is ok and now ready to go... then though, do I need to power down to replace the drives? Can I just take it out of the system and go? I know it is hot swap capable. Just doesn't feel right doing that with a healthy drive :)
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby bollar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:22 pm

Do the hotswap. No reason to bring the NAS down to replace the drive. Just follow the prompts on the NAS' display carefully as you go.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:35 pm

Thanks ... I'm on my way. The NAS repoted 13-14 hours to initialize the drive but Frontview is telling me about 6 hours. 14% done and 5:40 to go :)

So, when it's done initializing I assume it needs to restripe the data next?

BTW, is the system unusable while this process is happening or otherwise recommended not to be used? Will I slow the process down if I'm using it (its mostly used for streaming media in my home).

Thanks again
David

bollar wrote:Do the hotswap. No reason to bring the NAS down to replace the drive. Just follow the prompts on the NAS' display carefully as you go.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:41 pm

Frontview is showing the Seagate 1.5TB drive as 1397GB. Is this correct?
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:32 am

The first drive completed both processes (init & sync) with no problem. I then pulled drive #2 and started the same process. About 5 minutes into the init, a pop up message was received from Frontview letting me know that I needed to conduct a resynch by clicking the 'resync volume' button in the readynas volume settings/raid configuration tab. However, this button is greyed out. The raid status continues to show initialization happening (now at 3%). As this happened, the LCD on the ReadyNAS stopped showing me the init % and went back to the standard space availability display. The new drive #2 light continues to flash rapidly.

here is the first message in the log when I inserted the new #2 drive:

Sat Apr 18 06:16:33 EDT 2009 Disk initialization started. The estimated time of completion is 13 hour(s) and 14 minute(s), at which time you will be notified via email. You can also check the progress in Frontview in the Volumes -> RAID Settings tab. Please do not shutdown the system while the initialization is in progress.

Here is the next message received shortly a minute later, after init started:

Sat Apr 18 06:17:52 EDT 2009 A SATA reset has been performed on one or more of your disks that may have affected the RAID parity integrity. It is recommended that you perform a RAID volume resync from the RAID Settings tab ( accessible in the Volumes page => Volume tab in FrontView ). The resync process will run in the background, and you can continue to use the ReadyNAS in the meantime

Did something happen here? This is different than what I saw during the first drive replacement. During that process, i did not get the pop up to resync until after init and even then it told me the init was completed successfully and was now going to do the resync and started on its own. In the case of drive 2, the init just started, the pop is telling me to manually do a resync, resync button is greyed out and the LCD display is not showing the init process and % complete. Frontview is reporing however that the init is continuing and the percentage is incrementing.

Am I ok here?

Thanks!
David
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby bollar » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:35 am

I expect the data is okay. I suggest that the information in Frontview is correct and you should let it complete what it's doing. After that, the Health page will let us know what's going on.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby nvladik » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:55 am

You are doing fine, let it finish, it will tell you when it's ready.

1397GB is also correct.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:17 am

Thanks to you and others for your responses. The drive completed init in about 4 hours and now 23% through sync. I hope documenting this process helps some others in the future wanting to upgrade! :)

So, I'm also thinking that after I get done with this second drive I'm going to wait 48 hours before I start the 3rd and then another 48 until I start the 4th. The thought is burn in time. I would hate to see that I have a bad batch of drives especially after being stable for the last 2 years with the drives I'm pulling out.

Am I crazy and overly conservative? Should I just go for it?



nvladik wrote:You are doing fine, let it finish, it will tell you when it's ready.

1397GB is also correct.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:38 am

I've now upgraded 3 of 4 drives to 1.5TB. However, the available disk space has not changed from what was available prior to upgrading the first drive. Each of the 1.5TB drives in Frontview show their total allocated capacity as the capacity of the 750GB drives I had previously.

Do I really need to upgrade the last drive to get any benefit from the 3 I've upgraded already? What do I need to do to have the system recognize the additional capacity?

Thanks
David
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby nvladik » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:19 am

No you don't, but might aswell. To get the extra disk space, you will have to restart the unit a few times. so if you don't wait now, you will still have to do it when you install the final drive.
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:54 pm

ok, i'm on the last drive. It completed the init process as the others. However, it started the sync around 12:10p EST and would seem to have another 30 minutes or so to go based on the other drives. The others have been taking about about 4 1/2 hours (according to the logs).

The problem is, neither the LCD on the ReadyNAS nor the volume settings tab in Frontview are telling me that the sync is taking place. Frontview in the volumes tab has been showing me the percentage complete. Now, it is only telling me that the system is not redundant. The logs last show that the sync started this morning at 12:10p EST and nothing since. The light on the drive is flashing. There is no activity from the activity light. I believe I've seen the activity light flashing consistently when the first 3 drives were doing the sync process.

Just as I was sending this note, I saw the screen on the ReadyNAS switch from its normal screen to tell me that the sync was in progress on drive for but was at 0% !! This has been running for nearly 4 hours. It should be almost done. Should I pull the drive, reinsert? Should I leave the drive in and do a restart?

UPDATE - the NAS has just reported the following:
The disk on channel 4 has failed. The NAS will automatically shutdown in 30 minutes to prevent possible data loss resulting from additional failed drives.

UPDATE2 - I decided to pull the drive and reinsert. It immediately went to resync which I imagine it knows it was initiazlied already.

Thoughts?
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Re: hard drive upgrade (replace existing)

Postby SteinyD » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:46 am

After the 4th drive finished initialization and the sync process failed, I removed and reinserted the drive. It then restarted the sync process and finished in the appropriate amount of time.

With guidance of another member, I restarted the NAS. It asked me to restart once again. When it restarted the second time it told me it was starting 'expanding'. It took quite sometime but it counted the percentage complete until 100%. It then restarted on its own and again, went through 'expanding'. This time, it completed to 100% very rapidly (30 seconds?). It then restarted again. This time, it showed expanding but unfortunately is still showing 0% after nearly 7 hours! The drive lights are rotating (1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, etc.) and the activity light is flashing but in an irregular pattern. When I hover over the 'vol disk' button on raidar it is still showing me the capacity of my original 4x 750GB drives. The power button is slowing fading in and out. Raidar is showing the same. Obviously, I can't use Frontview as the NAS is not fully booted.

What do I do now? Is this related to the 4th drive not syncing properly the first time? Would seem like i need to call support at this point?
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EXPANSION COMPLETE - FULL SUMMARY REPORT

Postby SteinyD » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:41 am

For the record and hopefully for the benefit of someone expanding their system in the future, it took a total of Friday at 18:33-22:46 for Disk 1, Sat 06:13-14:37 for disk 2, Sat at 18:05-Sun 02:27 for disk 3, Sun 7:54-19:13 for disk 4. The expansion process took from Sat at 20:46-Tues at 01:55.

Here are my timings from the logs. Times are rounded to nearest 1/4 hour. The time per disk is from removal of former 750GB drive, insertion of new 1.5TB drive and time until the system was reported as redundant (initialization and sync complete). The expansion process is indicated as the time following the system reporting it was redundant after the 4th drive replacement and until I had the system back and it was reported as fully expanded.

Disk 1 - 9 1/4 hours
Disk 2 - 10 1/2hrs
Disk 3 - 8 1/2 hours
Disk 4 - 12 hrs
Expansion - 53 hrs
SYSTEM UNAVAILABLE - 53 HOURS (unacceptable)

TOTAL ELAPSED TIME TO COMPLETE 4 DRIVE REPLACE / EXPANSION: 93 1/4 hours

Total available space on 4 - 1.5TB drives = 4114 GB

Points of concern:

- no prior warnings of estimated time required to complete expansion time

- no prior warning that system would be unavailable during expansion process. The Jedia Council is indicating that NAS systems with a factory default firmware of 4.x or greater will do an expansion online (your system remains available). My documentation or any warnings 'before continuing' did not indicate this to me.

- no recommendations from Netgear as to how to approach a system upgrade/expansion (eg., should I replace one drive at a time, complete initializaiton, synchronization & expansion then move to next drive, or replace all intended drives - in my case 4 - and then do expansion)

- drive 4 failed the sync process shortly after initalization was complete. I removed the drive and reinserted. It immediately skipped the initiazliation process and appeared to successfully complete the sync process thereafter.

- 3 hours after expansion completed, the logs warn of, "Reallocated sector count has increased in the last day. Disk 2: Previous count: 0 Current count: 1 Growing SMART errors indicate a disk that may fail soon. If the errors continue to increase, you should be prepared to replace the disk."

As I have not had this issue during the prior 3 years with the NV+ and the 4 - 750GB drives, is this something to be concerned about? I realize this is 'only' one sector. However, having read some of the other reports in the forum I'm more interested in what Netgear's certification process entails in order to find a drive on their compatibility list. Are there hours of burn in, performance stress tests, swap / expansion tests, etc.

In this entire thread there has not been any responses from the forum reps. 'Skywalker' has responded to PMs for assistance. However, for the benefit of the greater community, I would request that Netgear provide a response to this summary, my concerns and commit to improvements in documentation.

This NAS is for home use and serving my home media distribution. As such, it isn't mission critical from a business perspective. However, if this had been in a business environment, had this been tax time and I needed access to my data I would be thoroughly concerned and disappointed that the system was unavailable for the duration of the expansion process with no warning - and, no indication of how long that might take. There is some algorithm used to determine how long the initialization / sync process takes as repoted in the logs. They should be able to determine how long the sync process should take. 53 hours is a long time to be without a system in any circumstance.

I hope this information helps someone. Please feel free to PM or email me with any questions or need for any detail. I will continue to report here should the logs indicate any additional warnings or failures.
Last edited by SteinyD on Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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