Pro 6 Long in the tooth vs. Bleeding Edge Gums

[JKC]

Any word on when the Pro 6 will support USB 3.0, Sata 6.0 GB drives, and the new Seagate Barracuda 1TB-per-disk technology (3 TB ST3000DM001)?

[mdgm]

The Pro 6 already supports USB3 drives just as USB2 speeds. Likewise it supports SATA III (6Gbps) drives at SATA II (3Gbps) speeds.

The Pro was released late 08, the Pro 6 late 2010, so maybe late 2012 for a 3rd gen Pro? NetGear could decide to keep the Pro 6 as its premium desktop offering for longer than that. It's a great NAS. SATA III mechanical hard drives aren't going to saturate SATA II anyway and with lots of data I'd prefer to backup NAS to NAS rather than to a USB disk.

As for that specific drive it is not on the Hard Disk HCL.

[PapaBear]

JKC - Actually on home networks with a gigabit network connection (1000 Mb/s) you can't even use the SATAI hard drives to their fullest capability (1500 Mb/s) much less the SATAI+I hard drives (3000 Mb/s). In order to get the full benefit of SATAIII hard drive speed you would need a 10 gigabit network connection. On the new high end computers with the SATAIII connections and the internal controllers to match, then that is great for disk intensive operations, but it is difficult to get that his speed across the network.

[JKC]

Thanks for the speedy reply. Nonetheless it's a spec war out there and sometimes advanced (or in this case currently available) features=sales=market share (read Drobo). If I've read correctly, Presumedly the 3.0 usb would be useful for speedier local backup off the array, and a 6 GBS bus should speed up internal operations like rebuilds or adding drives. I'd like to get a couple of Pro 6's early this year to cross replicate (possible right?) two branch offices. I'd hate to buy and populate them just in time for the new product to arrive. Does anyone know the contact info of the product manager, and who is responsible for testing and upgrading the HCL to include the new Seagates? As for throughput can the 2 lan ports be bonded or teamed, or do I do that through the router? Regarding (any) 3TB drive setup, can I start with 4 drives (Raid 6 or xRaid2) and add 2 more when I need them, or do I hit some volume limit and have to factory default and rebuild? Would you implement Raid 6 or xRaid2 in that scenario? I realize Netgear will not support drives not on the HCL, though it seems there are many early adopters do it, but will they still support the product, and how big of a deal is it? Thanks JKC

[PapaBear]

Glanced quickly at some of the afore mentioned Drobo Specs, and while it says you can use SATAI, II or III drives, it does not say it has an SATAIII interface. I can install an SATAIII drive in my 2003 HP D530, but since it only has an SATAI interface, I will only get SATAI speeds.

I note that their spec sheets do not have anything about processors, memory or read write speeds. In fact comparing the Pro Series Data Sheet to the one for the Drobo Business series on their website leaves me with more questions about their products than answers.

Some of the more adventurous members do try non approved drives. There is a recent post by a member who tried 6x4TB Hitachi hard drives and had some unusual problems. Another member who had tried Seagate 4TB drives removed from their USB enclosure had better results. Sometimes non approved drives work fine, sometimes they cause connection problems and some times they cause data loss.

As for the bleeding edge, I would much rather trust my data to the stable reliable platform than the bleeding edge. In the computer world as in the aviation world, the bleeding edge is called that because when you push the envelope you encounter new challenges and opportunities. Fortunately, in the computer world it is data at risk rather than real blood.

As to the replicate application, I do believe that replicate can work in both direction. I seem to recall a post that pointed out that replicate set up it's own area on the remote ReadyNAS, so that the local shares and the replicate data was separate. However, either some one who has actually done this or one of the Jedi would have to confirm.

[mdgm]

Thanks for the speedy reply. Nonetheless it's a spec war out there and sometimes advanced (or in this case currently available) features=sales=market share (read Drobo). If I've read correctly, Presumedly the 3.0 usb would be useful for speedier local backup off the array

USB 3 would help with backup speeds.

and a 6 GBS bus should speed up internal operations like rebuilds or adding drives.

That would be true if the disks could saturate SATA II which they can't.

I'd like to get a couple of Pro 6's early this year to cross replicate (possible right?) two branch offices. I'd hate to buy and populate them just in time for the new product to arrive.

Well a new product could arrive this year or it could still be a year or two away. We can only guess. Best to buy when you need it, not wait for a new product that may be far further away than you might think.

Does anyone know the contact info of the product manager, and who is responsible for testing and upgrading the HCL to include the new Seagates?

As for throughput can the 2 lan ports be bonded or teamed, or do I do that through the router?

Yes, they can be bonded/teamed. If you have a smart switch that supports 802.3ad LACP, I'd suggest using that.

Regarding (any) 3TB drive setup, can I start with 4 drives (Raid 6 or xRaid2) and add 2 more when I need them, or do I hit some volume limit and have to factory default and rebuild?

You can add them when you need them.

Would you implement Raid 6 or xRaid2 in that scenario?

X-RAID2. I'd recommend the dual-redundancy option (like RAID-6).
1. Insert a disk into the NAS
2. Do a factory default (wipes all data, settings, everything).
3. Boot NAS and Update to latest firmware
4. Power down and insert rest of disks and do another factory default (wipes all data, settings, everything)
5. When you initiate the factory default the NAS will perform a few checks and then give you 10 minutes to discover the NAS using RAIDar (http://www.readynas.com/downloads), click setup, choose X-RAID2, tick the dual-redundancy option and confirm your choice.

realize Netgear will not support drives not on the HCL, though it seems there are many early adopters do it, but will they still support the product, and how big of a deal is it? Thanks JKC

Stick to drives on the compatibility list.

As to the replicate application, I do believe that replicate can work in both direction. I seem to recall a post that pointed out that replicate set up it's own area on the remote ReadyNAS, so that the local shares and the replicate data was separate. However, either some one who has actually done this or one of the Jedi would have to confirm.

You can have separate ReadyNAS Replicate jobs one going NAS A to NAS B and one going NAS B to NAS A. This would be to backup different data.

If you want bi-directional syncing look into Egynte Local Cloud: http://www.readynas.com/egnyte

[JKC]

It seems that the Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST3000DM001 3 TB 6Gb/s Drives are now listed compatible in the latest ARM release for the ReadyNAS Duo v2 or ReadyNAS NV+ v2. Synology lists them as compatible as well. I switched to Seagate years ago because of the 5 year warrantee. Now it's 1 year, and if you follow the posts at Newegg or Amazon, it seems like they have an unacceptable % DOA. Caveat Emptor. That's Latin for **** you. However I'm still willing to buy into the 1TB/Platter technology based on past performance, and hope. It's been a long time since a rev on *86 (9/11) when presumably the HCL is revised. Prior approved Seagate drives are no longer available. Message to product manager at Netgear: GOYA (English for Get Off Your ***) and give us potential buyers a current HD post Thailand solution, and co-market with Seagate to give us a 5 year warrantee with your product whether you supply the drives or we do with the diskless offering. Thanks, from someone who wants to buy the product, but.... it's not currently hardware compatible (Netgear), and the risks are not acceptable (Seagate). GOYA

[PapaBear]

I too am a long time Seagate user, but not specifically because of the warranty, but because of the past reliability I had experienced. My first Seagates that were installed in a X-Raid configuration were in my NV+ some 5 years ago. I lost one of the two drives within the first month and replaced it. I had no more problems with them until I upgraded the drives almost two years ago with 1TB drives. I also added an NVX and then a second and all the drives have been in service in those two units until a year ago. I have to date suffered a 40% failure rate, so when I added 3TB drives to the mix, I went with Hitachi. They seemed to have good reports on the forums, and indeed they have operated for almost a year now without incident. I did buy a spare which is still in it's original sealed anti-static envelope in it's original box.

Just because a drive model you want to use is not on the list it does not mean it has not been tested. In fact, since it has been tested and approved for the ARM processor, and has been on that list for some time, would indicate to me that there could be a problem with them on the x-86. Considering the intermittent problems with the ST2000DL003 on the x-86 platform, especially when used with Mac's on the network, they are most likely being extra cautious, or there are problems. You can use unapproved drives, and some users have. You may not have problems, but then again, you might.

[JKC]

Thank you so much PapaBear for the lightning fast response. Is there anyone to talk to at NetGear to get the real scoop on the drives, or the next release of the firmware? I tried NetGear tech support Level 2 and they didn't know. I tried Seagate and of course they have no problems with the drives. I have been waiting a while to purchase two Pro 6 with 12 3TB drives (big price difference between Seagate & Hitachi), so I am hesitant to buy into a problem without more info, or invest in the Pro 6 today and have to rebuild it in the near future when the firmware is finally released.

[mdgm]

It's not yet 9am where most of the Jedi are. So it's not the time of day most of them are on the forums.

4.2.20 is due for release soon. I'd expect that once that's released we may see some more drives added to the compatibility list. When a drive is added to the compatibility list it's recommended to use firmware no older than the latest stable at the time the drive is added to the list. Firmware updates can address compatibility issues. 4.2.19 was released a while ago now and it is possible that there are some compatibility issues with some new drives that have been addressed in 4.2.20.

[JKC]

Thanks for the heads up MDGM. I feel like the kid in the back seat going "are we there yet?" Any best guess how soon is soon, or is that a Jedi answer?

[mdgm]

Well 4.2.20 is now available: http://www.readynas.com/RAIDiator_x86_4_2_20_Notes

Update to that and I guess we'll see what happens.